ARCHIVE: ToyToons Sits Down With UNKL Brand's Derek Welch

Article originally published 11/08/2007 at toytoons.com

When it comes to the growing urban vinyl scene, the folks over at UNKL have become a major player. Since their wildly successful debut of the HazMaPo character in 2005, UNKL has created a long string of wild and unique figures, leaving fans clamoring for more. The past year has been one of significance for co-founders Derek Welch and Jason Bacon. UNKL’s appearances at both the New York and San Diego Comic Cons have increased their visibility with fans on a national level. Partnering with the band Wilco to release musician-themed versions of their UniPo figures, UNKL has broadened the scope of the types of characters they are willing to create.

We took a tour of UNKL’s new Portland, Oregon studios to get a sneak peek at some of their upcoming projects. Derek Welch also sat down with us to answer questions about the past, present and future of the artistic cornucopia that is the UNKL Brand.

ToyToons: Thanks for taking the time to sit down and chat. The big news right now seems to be the ‘sneak peek’ on your website of the upcoming MaKPo, designed after themes from Kow Yokahama's ‘Machine Krieger’. What can you tell fans about this piece?

Derek: We’ll be doing two versions. We’ll have (the grey) version and we’ll have another, smaller run that we’ll only have available on our website. I think we’re doing 100 of those. At this point, the only way to get a three inch HazMaPo is to get it with the MaKPo.

ToyToons: Is the unveiling of the MaKPo still scheduled for next year’s New York Comic Con?

Derek: Yeah and I think it’s very possible that, with some of the ones that we’re doing a smaller run, we’ll probably have some of those available as well.

ToyToons: What different paint schemes are you going to include in the MaKPo line?

Derek: The one that is in the run of 100 is orange, so the graphics are kind of a tonal version of that. It is a lot brighter in color. There is a lot of thought that we have on the different things we want to do related to ‘Machine Krieger’, but getting this thing off the ground has been (a long process). All of the information, artwork, prototype sculpt, specs… all of that stuff went to the factory August a year ago. So, it’s been over a year that it has taken us to get it to this point

ToyToons: The MaKPo looks like the most articulated and customizable product that UNKL has produced.

Derek: It’s the most ambitions thing we’ve undertaken. I think, as a result, that’s why it’s taken so long to get to this point. I’m sure that we’re going to be happy with it. I just really want Kow Yokohama to be happy with it and be satisfied that we’ve taken his aesthetic and point of view with ‘Machine Krieger’ with our approach and put them together. I think that it’s still iconic enough that it looks like his stuff.

When we first showed Kow images of what we wanted to do, really the only thing that he said that he thought should be different was that he wanted it to be more like UNKL’s stuff and less like his stuff. So we thought that with the first one, it could be a little more like ‘Machine Krieger’ and with the next thing we do, it comes a little more to the UNKL side. You figure, you’ve got two points on a scale and you just hit those points in different areas along the way. We are just looking for it to be a long relationship that allows us to keep collaborating and doing things. He’s pretty much given us free reign to do whatever we want. He’s putting a lot of trust in us, which is great and… unusual.

ToyToons: With the release and success of the Wilco UniPo figures this past summer, what other music-theme projects is UNKL working on?

Derek: We have quite a few band-oriented figures that are going on right now… all with Ipecac Recordings. We met (co-founder) Mike Patton and he had an appreciation for what we are doing. We also have an appreciation for a lot of the projects that he is involved in. He does so many different things with so many different musicians. The guy has got a million projects going on. So, we thought that this would be interesting because he has his point of view and his approach to doing things, but depending on who he is collaborating with, it could kind of pull in different directions. We thought that the root of that idea matches pretty well with the way we work. So, the first product will roll out in January of 2008.

ToyToons: Will this be similar to the Wilco products, featuring band members as figures?

Derek: It’s different than that. It’s not likenesses of the members of the band. It’s more about our interpretation of what that band is, through a figure. For us, it was an opportunity to experience a lot of different types of music. Some of which we were familiar with and some we weren’t quite as familiar with. The first thing I said was that I needed to hear this stuff and find out if it was anything I would like.

One thing that I enjoy doing is, when I’m creating any artwork or designing anything for something specific, I want to be exposed to what (the subject) is. So, if I’m designing a figure about a specific band, I want to be listening to that music. It was pretty cool to create these figures listening to that music and then step back and look at it. I was able to evaluate them and decide if it really looked like it represented what I was hearing or, if not what I’m hearing, what the musicians in the band were trying to express.

ToyToons: It seems that, like your experience working with Wilco, you’ve found a group of musicians who really understand what you are trying to do, and are allowing you the freedom to be creative with the project.

Derek: Yeah, it’s fun. Mike Patton tends to have very specific ideas of what he wants to do. The process of us doing our thing and him wanting it to be a certain way… there was a little bit of that. I think it was interesting because, from our point of view, it was an opportunity for us to say that not everybody likes what he does. Not everybody likes what we do. But we’re working on this thing together and we’ll make it work. But, it doesn’t have to be formulaic. It doesn’t have to be something where you have this picture in your mind and you’re trying to have somebody create it for you. It’s got to be more open. If he was going to work with us, he had to let us just do our thing. I think he recognized this and just let everyone do what they do best. I think its going to be great. It’s going to be really cool.

ToyToons: Is there an update on the fan-designed UniPo contest figures? These were originally intended to be released this coming December. Is this still the projected release date?

Derek: I think that’s probably not going to happen for December. That project has just become more of a practical matter of production. With some of the artwork and the way it was created, the way it would have to be produced to adhere to what the artist intended… it’s expensive. So, with the fan series, we’re trying to get the pricing acceptable. The quotes that we have right now are just too high. We’ve gone through the process of simplifying the artwork. Two of the four (figures) aren’t really an issue but with the other two, there’s a lot going on… they’re pretty involved.

I’ve been taking the artwork and trying to simplify it while not sacrificing the intent of the artwork. I’m trying to keep it as close as possible (to the original work). Just like, with almost everything we do, we don’t want to be bound to the deadline or the release date as much as we want to be bound to the quality. We want to make sure its both affordable and what the artist intended. It’s a little bit different; I don’t know that we’ll do something like that again. For me, I have kind of a hard time shouldering that responsibility. I can’t help but look at it from the standpoint of the artist who created it and thinking that if I were them, I wouldn’t want anybody messing around with my stuff. But, that’s part of the deal. We told (the participants) that we might have to make some changes.

The reality of this is that it costs money to do it and the only changes that would be made would be for production purposes, not because of the aesthetics. Obviously, we liked them enough to go ahead and make them. So, if we have to charge twice as much for the fan series as we would for our normal stuff, it just doesn’t quite make sense. It’s hard to charge that much for something anyway.

ToyToons: So, are you aiming for a first quarter 2008 release with the fan series?

Derek: I’d say that’s realistic. I would say that worst case, it would be available at New York Comic Con. What we’ve really been trying to do is just come up with a schedule that is a good 16 or 18 months long. It will plan for when artwork gets released, when we want to release the product, when we want to have it delivered… all that. The process of doing this always takes longer and gets snagged up more than it should. For example, we might want to release something in March, so we have the delivery date set for January. We might have the product for two months before we release it, but at least we know we have it.

ToyToons: What was the response to the new Ulligus figures at this year’s San Diego Comic Con?

Derek: Very good. That really was a situation where I didn’t have a sense at all about how it would go. I wasn’t sure if people were going to respond, I didn’t know. But they just flew out the door, which was really cool to see.

ToyToons: Is he coming back? Possibly by himself or perhaps with another SUG two-pack?

Derek: At some point. We’ve kicked it around several times, but we haven’t really settled on what we’re going to do. We do have two new SUGs that are designed and ready to go to the factory. We’re waiting on some of the other products that need to progress are further along (in the manufacturing process). As far as Ulligus goes, we have some ideas but we don’t have anything that is finalized yet. We just have a bunch of different approaches and don’t know for sure what we’re going to do.

More than any other character we’ve done, we have a whole family of things for SUG… drawings, ideas and things that haven’t been fully designed or fleshed out. That whole language could very well exist as its own society. We have so many different things; buildings, vessels and different characters. It’s been really cool to see develop but like everything else, it all has do be done in baby steps.

ToyToons: Tell me a little about the TinPo animated shorts that are now running with CBS Saturday Morning Cartoons.

Derek: They’re cool. We’re extremely happy with how they’ve come out. I don’t think we would characterize ourselves as Care Bears people, so having (the TinPo shorts) run in conjunction with Saturday Morning Cartoons is a little different. But I think that the quality of the writing of the episodes, they’re only 30 second shorts, is great. The concepts, the purpose, the execution are all great. We’re pleased all the way through. I can’t be critical of anything that’s happened with it because I feel like all the people who have worked on it and the way that they have actually followed through with it is ideal.

ToyToons: Did UNKL have any involvement with the writing or development of the animated TinPo characters?

Derek: We didn’t write any of the episodes. When American Greetings purchased the license, when that whole negotiation was going on, we went out and met with them a couple of times. We met with their creative directors, their team and the illustrators. We talked through what the idea behind TinPo was, what our vision would be. Then, we let them go do their thing. So it was really, in a lot of ways, almost like briefing the project. We just gave them the background and where it came from. They obviously had the character likenesses and all that, but where it went from there was their deal.

ToyToons: It sounds like it was a very positive experience for UNKL.

Derek: It was great. What happened was that their creative team came up with ideas and we met with them again. They presented us with those ideas and we had a half-day brainstorming session where we sat around and talked about the different things that it could be. We talked as well about to what degree that the entertainment is education.

We felt like what was going to happen was that TinPo was going to be taken from our initial intent, which was something for older people, and turned into an entertainment property for kids. With that approach in mind, (co-founder) Jason Bacon and I both having kids, thought it would be great if a component would be that kids could learn something. It’s about being creative with problem solving and being in situations where there might be an obvious solution but your approach to it is not what you think it would be. It’s also entertaining at the same time.

ToyToons: I know that 10 shorts have been created so far. Have you heard if there are plans to continue the TinPo animated spots beyond that?

Derek: It’s probably going to be a while before they have hard and fast data on how they feel like it is going. As far as I know, it’s been received well. The next step I think would be for them to either continue making more shorts, dependent upon what they feel like the intent behind that is, or for it to become its own half-hour show… which is what we’d like to see. Because, then the merchandise happens with all of that.

I think, for Jason and I, the only reason we were hesitant to do this thing with TinPo would be because we don’t want people who have supported what we were doing to feel like we just pimped it out. First of all, all of our decisions are very calculated and we are very careful about what we do and don’t do. We were approaching it like it was our responsibility to do the right thing. The fact of the matter is that if we have a character and it becomes main-stream entertainment, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It allows us to meet different people and be exposed to different ways of doing things.

It allows us to have things put in front of a broader audience, people who would never see the stuff that we were doing before. And if it is financially successful, that’s good too. What that means is that we can still do the stuff that we want to do. Our projects require a lot of effort and resources to get it done. In order for us to keep doing that, it has to be able to keep paying for itself. There is a business part of it that plays into the ability to create the art or the design the way we want to.

ToyToons: The episodes that are airing right now look great. There definitely seems to be a built-in audience for the type of animation that is being produced with the TinPo shorts.

Derek: Thanks. We kind of looked at it the same way as how The Simpsons started on the Tracy Ullman Show. How it became an element that people expected and that’s what they looked forward to. I used to love watching that show, it was a great show, and The Simpsons just made it better. The context was different but the thought that they could start out as 30 second shorts and become something bigger is pretty cool. The whole thing is just… we don’t know where it’s going to go or what’s going to happen. We’re confident though that it’s in the right hands.

ToyToons: It seems like you found a great fit with American Greetings and their understanding of what you wanted the animated TinPo to convey to the viewer. It makes it easer when you are happy with the finished product.

Derek: American Greetings was sensitive to that when we started talking to them. They felt like it was necessary to prove to us that they could do this. We had to have a level of trust because, although we have input, they don’t have to legally listen to anything we say. We could disagree with them and they could just do what they wanted anyway. The relationship we have with them is very good, the communication goes both ways. For us to know that they are listening to us and their concerns about adhering to what our wishes would be, it is reassuring.

ToyToons: What else would you like us to pass on to UNKL fans about upcoming projects that you might be working on over the coming year?

Derek: Well, we do have a few new things that we’re working on. Characters that are not new versions of existing ones, but are all new characters with new sculpts. I won’t get into what that is right now, but its stuff that we’re obviously really excited about and anxious to proceed with. We’ll probably have a couple of things launching at the New York Comic Con. The whole Ipecac series will be running throughout the course of 2008.