Article originally published 06/7/2008 at popculturezoo.comIf you are a fan of comics, you know Tim Sale. If you are a fan of the television show Heroes, you know Tim Sale. For more than a decade, Sale has been part of the creative force behind some of the most widely-acclaimed comic books, including
Batman: The Long Halloween
,
Superman For All Seasons and
Daredevil: Yellow. Already a mainstay among comic fans, Sale was introduced to the rest of the world in 2006 as the artist who generated the clairvoyant paintings for the character Isaac Mendez on the CBS series
Heroes. Since then, he has become a very busy man. We were able to sit down with Tim Sale at this year’s
Emerald City ComiCon and ask a few questions about his work on Heroes, the effects of comics on mainstream media and his storied partnership with writer Jeph Loeb.
PCZ: You spoke a bit in your panel about the impact that your work on Heroes has had on your career, as well as introducing you to a different medium in television. Is that something that satisfied a creative need to work outside of comics?
TS: Well, I didn’t get involved with Heroes because I needed more ways to express myself outside of comics. So, I guess the answer is yes. I kind of fell into it and I don’t really have any ambitions to go further, which does not mean that I wouldn’t enjoy whatever might come up. I’m not pursuing it and Heroes was not done because I pursued it and wasn’t fulfilled somehow in comics.
PCZ: That was more of a product of Jeph Loeb coming to you with the project, right?
TS: Yeah… to have fun. That’s really what it was. I thought I’d be good for it and it turned out that they thought I’d be good for it too. So, that’s always really nice when that happens. I do get offers, not necessarily from TV, but for advertising or something where I’m clearly not a fit. Where I don’t know why they came to me, its not any fun… that kind of thing.
PCZ: Do you think that your work with Heroes has made both your stuff and comics in general more accessible to a larger audience of people who wouldn’t normally open a comic book or walk into a comic shop?
TS: I don’t have a sense of that. In the same way that I don’t really have a sense that if somebody likes the Spider-Man movie, they’re going to run down to their local comic book store and see what’s going on… which may or may not be a good thing. For me personally, its been great but I’m not really sure about a broader scale.
PCZ: You made the comment in your panel that comics are kind of an isolated industry. That if someone is raised with comics, the books become easier and more accessible than if they weren’t.
TS: I think that was referring to my interest and the way that I like to do comics. It’s partly because I’m interested in reaching people that do not grow up in that insulated comic book reading world. I remember when my parents first started reading my work, God bless them… they had no other reason to than that I was their son, they didn’t know to go from right to left and top to bottom. If you don’t know that basic thing, and they are very literate people, it was like “What are those balloons, which balloon do I read next?” If the layout of the page is crazy and full of stuff, it ends up to be too much work for people. So, ironically the stuff that is often praised with an amazing sense of energy just turns most people off. It’s too much. And that’s more what I was talking about, not that the industry was isolated, because increasingly it’s not.
PCZ: With the recent success of comic-based movies, or even comic themes finding their way into television shows like Heroes, it seems like the line that divided comics from the rest of the entertainment industry has been blurred, if not completely erased.
TS: That’s true, although I think it mostly goes from comics to other media. It doesn’t feed back to comics very much.
PCZ: Not yet at least.
TS: Well, I’d be surprised if it did. Marvel is doing much more than DC but it’s still a very insulated world, what they do. The most that either company looks to bring movies or other pop culture stuff back into comics is with tie-ins, stuff like that… which usually blow. But, the other way around, the movies and TV (industry) has discovered all this talent who are dying to be in movies… just really talented writers. They are influenced by the art. I’m told that The Long Halloween has influenced the recent (director Christopher) Nolan Batman movie. Its not as though Jeph and I are involved in the movies or that there is something from those movies that would affect us. Really, pretty much 99% of it goes from comics to movies. What is true, and I absolutely agree with you, is what has been blurred is the stigma that has made movie and TV people not be interested in comics. They realize its a gold mine, both in terms of talent and in terms of money.
PCZ: Yeah, and I was speaking more towards talent rather than money, though money is always a part of it. With the amount of talent in the comic industry, both with the artists and writers, its amazing how much of it is influencing mainstream entertainment. I think it is pretty great that guys like you and your work have been able to get the type of wide-scale exposure that comes with being involved in a film or television project.
TS: My thing (with Heroes) is very… there’s nothing else like it, which is why I sort of fell into it. It’s nothing I created, but to my knowledge there’s no other show that involves art driving the plot, or movies where the art drove the plot. But it’s cool.
PCZ: You have mentioned in the past that you aren’t certain if your artwork from Heroes will ever be released commercially by the studios.
TS: I know I have no control over it and it hasn’t happened yet. I don’t get it. That’s money on the table.
PCZ: Will some of your Heroes pieces be in the new edition of Tim Sale: Black and White?
TS: There is some Heroes work in there. We’re trying to downplay it a little bit. I’m not putting out a book and saying “Hey, this is Heroes art!” There is some Heroes work in there but there’s also some Marvel and DC work in it as well. There is no ‘Art of Heroes’ book…
PCZ: It seems like that would be a no-brainer.
TS: Yeah, I don’t get it. There is a fair amount of merchandise but not beyond the level of like, coffee mugs and t-shirts. Not taking advantage of the uniqueness (of the show). There was that really cool hardcover book (Heroes Volume 1) that collected all the web comics. My art was in that as well.
PCZ: Apparently you are going to be doing the cover of this year’s San Diego Comic Con exclusive Heroes comic?
TS: I just learned that yesterday. I don’t know it officially… Richard Starkings told me in the panel.
PCZ: It has been confirmed that you will have new artwork in the upcoming season of Heroes. Are you hoping to continue your relationship with the show long-term or are you taking more of a wait-and-see approach?
TS: Well, I’d like it to be long-term but it is absolutely wait-and-see. I’m part of the crew… I kind of do what they tell me to do.
PCZ: How much of your artwork for Heroes influences how a particular scene in the show is constructed?
TS: No, its the other way around. Its in the script first absolutely and then I do what they tell me to do. There is some interpretation if the script isn’t really that detailed. Because, they aren’t writing a comic script that is describing every detail of the scene. Its mostly dialog and brief bits of description of the action. That’s a TV and movie script. So, something that is written as “character is flying around a wall” needs more information. What wall and where? What time of day is it? What is the character wearing? That type of stuff.
PCZ: Your newest project with Jeph Loeb is Captain America: White. What first brought you and Jeph together and what has the process been like working with him over your many projects?
TS: Well, that’s a very big question. We met at San Diego Comic Con around 1988. But, we were put together by Barbara Randall, who was the editor of DC. She had been working with Jeph to try and find an artist for Challengers of the Unknown. Jeph had been hired by Jeanette Kahn, who was the president and head of DC at the time, and she wanted to reach out to movies and television. To try and get people involved and begin what’s happening now… way back then. She knew that Jeph was involved in the very early stages of a Flash movie that was turned into a Flash television show. Anyway, he was decided that he was going to be the writer on Challengers in reviving that title.
PCZ: That was a good book.
TS: (laughs) Well, thank you. Diplomatically, I choose not to debate you on that. So, that’s how (Jeph and I) met. I took a portfolio to San Diego and showed it to a bunch of people… Matt Wagner, Diana Schutz, Bob Schreck and Barbara Randall. And from that one Con, I really had my career. They’re working with me focused on Bob, Diana and Matt. I did some early stuff for Dark Horse, some Grendel and some other odd jobs for them. I met Jeph through that. We kind of hammered away at each other for a while about what was the best way to work together. It took a while. He’s a really funny, interesting, smart man. We got along great, we’re very different but we got along really well. That made it easer for us to figure things out. It was always a very close working relationship. He wouldn’t just send me a script and not answer the phone… which is pretty common (in the industry).
PCZ: Do the two of you work together to decide which characters to work on?
TS: Yeah, we talk about it. One of us will ask “What do you want to do next?” But its always a combination of creative and financial concerns for both of us. What makes sense at the time… should it be once a month? Is there a movie coming out about the character? That kind of thing. We wouldn’t do it just to do it.
PCZ: Are there any characters that you haven’t done yet that you would like to tackle?
TS: Not really. I’m always happy to go back to Batman and Superman. I’d kind of like to try Spiderman again because I feel like I never really got it before. Characters like that. I love the Hulk, that was a lot of fun to do. Through that I had thought about doing Iron Man but now he’s blowing up. I loved drawing Iron Man in the tin can. But I don’t really think that way. If something seems to make sense at one point, then I’ll work on it. I’ve sort of done all the iconic characters, so there aren’t many left. I’ve got a couple original ideas that I’d like to work on, more creator-owned.
PCZ: Are the creator-owned projects something that you are hoping to produce more of long-term?
TS: Yeah, it just really makes sense. I’m not comfortable writing, so that’s been a big hurdle for me. I’m still hammering away at my own self and trying to figure that out. There’s something called The Killing Floor that I want to do. I’ve had it in my head for a long time. Its a noir series of stories that is tragic and romantic. I love drawing that stuff.
We’d like to thank Mr. Sale for taking time out of a very busy convention schedule to talk with us. You can chat with Tim over on the message boards at his official site.
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